There’s more to guilt than court verdicts
Hafiz Saeed is innocent. Hafiz Saeed is guilty. And so the discourse rages on in Pakistan. In a public move on the 5th of April, Mr Javed Hashmi, President PTI endorsed Mr Hafiz Saeed as (reportedly) “a preacher of peace in the world.” I have had issues with PTI’s world-view for a while. This statement is rather easy to mock but let us resist the temptation and deal with what it implies.
Now it is important to state what this piece is not going to be about. This piece is not about defending or opposing the bounty placed on Mr Saeed by the US. That is a distinct issue. This piece is about condemning the deliberate obfuscation, by the PTI leadership, of the issues involved.
If Mr Saeed is a preacher of peace in the world then the world, according to Mr Saeed and President PTI, excludes India, Indian Kashmir and non-Muslims particularly those living outside Pakistan. Such a world view is predictable among right wing militarised radicals in Pakistan but it hardly deserves endorsement from a political party and its leaders that are fast gaining popularity.
Of course Mr Hafiz Saeed has never been found guilty by a court of law and that is a fact. But is that the only standard which a society uses or should use to endorse an individual? If court verdicts are the only standard by which PTI thinks Mr Saeed is to be judged then, quite frankly, PTI has shot itself in the foot. Messrs Zardari and Sharif can easily point to the lack of court verdicts finding them guilty. Does that mean the PTI will not call them corrupt anymore? And even if PTI can point to the odd verdict abroad against a politician, its whole rhetoric of corruption being rife collapses if court verdicts are what determine its discourse.
And this brings us to the heart of the matter; Mr Hashmi/PTI has been disingenuous when it comes to Mr Hafiz Saeed. The latter of course should get due process before the courts and presumed innocent till guilty. But that is a standard before the courts. Endorsing him, as a man of peace and providing him legitimacy, is an entirely different matter. Mr Saeed is about more than the ostensibly charitable Jamaat-ud-Dawa. And JuD is about more than charity. It is about money, arms, hatred preaching literature et al. One only has to live with open eyes and ears in Pakistan to see how these organisations operate with impunity. You, of course, always have the option of being naïve and willfully blind.
What Mr Saeed believes can be gleaned by anyone with half a brain cell willing to look at what Mr Saeed has said — both recently and in the past. Guilt before courts is one thing. Social utility of discourse or lack thereof is another. Dangers posed to society by a narrative endorsing violence are linked to this.
In a country where most of us would agree that the justice system is broken, relying on legal formalisms and court verdicts as the only yardstick by which to determine whether someone deserves to be celebrated by society is downright corrupt. Save your typing energy if your criticism is that this piece doesn’t mention corruption of the government. That is an article for another day.
Mr Saeed’s world view and speech preaches hatred against India and the West in blanket terms. He thinks that he is doing all of us a favour by supporting/heading Lashkar-e-Taiba or its militants. The fact that his bigoted views are held deeply does not or should not legitimise them. And political parties that endorse him in public as a man of peace deserve condemnation. The banning of the LeT should in no way be presumed to have put an end to Mr Saeed’s anti-state activities. Yes, anti-state because the Constitution of Pakistan expressly prohibits the raising of private armies. To the extent that our military establishment supports such unholy “joint-ventures” it is also guilty.
For those who want to discover whether Mr Saeed is actually a preacher of peace, I recommend Jessica Stern’s book “Terror in the Name of God; Why Religious Militants Kill.” Ms Stern analyses trends of militancy in Christianity, Judaism and Islam. For the chapters focusing on terror perpetrated by Islamist elements, she interviewed Mr Hafiz Saeed. In Muridke. In those pages, Mr Saeed comes across as a man who thinks that jihad is his duty/god-given responsibility. Killing others is then merely something his God tells him to do. He does not see problems with infusing the religious element into a territorial dispute such as Kashmir. He owns armed fighting and training of militants. The book also features interviews with members of Mr Saeed’s army; young men brainwashed into taking up the cause — deserting not just good sense but, more tragically, their families. Mr Hashmi would presumably forgive all of Mr. Saeed’s violent designs since Mr Saeed has allegedly always been pious. Doesn’t work that way for me.
Hafiz Saeed has never disputed the account put forward by Jessica Stern. And why focus on that account alone? One could locate his world view in many of his speeches. Murder and violence for a cause he deems worthy appears justified to him.
If Hafiz Saeed is innocent because the courts have never found him guilty, then PTI loses the whole corruption argument. It is incumbent upon those holding sway over public opinion to state the obvious. And problems with what Mr Hafiz Saeed stands for are glaringly obvious. By relying on formalisms and legitimising him, PTI is doing everyone in this country, except the supporters of violence, a great disservice. For this, all of us must hold the PTI leadership accountable. Not before a court of law but in the court of public opinion.
The writer is a Barrister and an Advocate of the High Courts. He is currently pursuing his LL.M in the US and can be reached at [email protected] or on Twitter @wordoflaw
ok fair enough – its your opinion. Can we now see a similar aricle on MQM, PPP and PML-N? I doubt it. I mean did this guy watch, read or listen to Rehman Malik's (PPP) offcial statement regards to this Hafiz Saeed? Constructive and fair criticism is good for debate, but unfair and biased is not. So sad.
It is biased articles like these that may result in the closure of Pakistantoday.
This guy is I’m sure the most stupid ever I read. He is stating that JUD is dealing in arms and spreading ethnic or sectarian hatred. Let me ask! is the help of victims of earthquake is called deal in arms? Is the help of victims of flood is called deal in arms or spreading hatred? How disgusting is that? JUD is the organization who comes forward for the help there, where govt. itself is helpless. In the mountains of Azad Kashmir where choppers didn’t reach, they went on helping with the food and medicine picking up on their back. So isn’t that good enough?
To all those posters above! You guys have not answered the question author has raised that how Hafiz Saeed is a man of peace if he preaches hate? He is innocent because evidence against him is weak so Nawaz and Zardari are innocent by the same rule.Isn't it a contradiction of PTI standards of measuring corruption? There is no verdict against them as well. Think about it and answer rather than abusing author.
point…
The article is filled with sensationalist rhetoric. What exactly is 'preaches hatred'? This article preaches hatred of Saeed; wherein lies the distinction? The article cites no evidence of such speech hate. Where exactly is this blanket hatred? Does it include the condemnation of 9/11 that his party published? Does Saeed target all Indians or merely those committing injustices in Kashmir? And by whose standard is instilling religion into warfare inherently immoral? You speak of jihad as if it were synonymous with terrorism. Is the Qur'an and Sunnah – nay, our history which we always seem to hail as glorious and wonderful – not replete with jihad: a war against oppression and tyrrany?
I thank Allah that such sanctimonious West rear-end sucking radical secularists' mouths are far bigger than the proportion of their adherents in the country.
WTF..! who's preaching hate. JUD is always helping others and working for Islam. He is a man of peace. Don't compare hafiz sAeed to any political party. He is helping people with his organization. Supporting jihad is good and jihad ia arm of Muslim. Author is totally mad and sick. Get a life man and grow up.
so what is the other standard? up till now the world has only one standard and that is courts… even nazis were allowed a trial… and regarding nawaz and zardari, i will tell you the difference… the difference is that zardari and nawaz were/are holding public offices and their assets are way beyond their source of incomes…so either they should explain or will remain guilty… hafiz saeed is not holding any public office… if anybody finds that he is embezzling something from the charity then there can be a case…but i dont know why suddenly i am reading a lot of unknown experts in newspaper these days? and all are united on one thing..imran khan and PTI is responsible for all the wrongs in the country and in the world… get a life people… one cannot compare apple with oranges… or i can challenge you do a referendum in pakistan between zardari, nawaz and hafiz saeed and i bet more people will vote for hafiz saeed… with money one can buy so-called journalists and newspaper space and propaganda but the facts cant be changed… IK and PTI is coming into power…
and if speech can be used to held someone for a crime, then i pray you people check the speeches of obama before his elections…and you will see the daylight… at least hafiz saeed never said that blow up the vatican or the pope or a mandar or anything like that… but i know the american, indian and nawaz zardari apologists would not like to comment on this… they will just trumpet their IK-is-wrong mantra….
And "Democrat", sir, your analysis of Obama's speeches is wrong. he never said any such thing. none of the arguments raised here have been about free speech. it is about condemning the corruption caused by a certain kind of speech, not banning speech through state power. try getting a brain first o pti trolls, that might help? it usually does.
You crazy idiots. What's sad is that instead of actually reading the article and understanding the paradigm from which the author's argument emerges, you're acting like brainless fools. "Oh he criticized PTI/Hafiz Saeed? That goes against all we think we know. Let's insult him!" You are all exactly like the people you defend; no patience for opinions contrary to your own. No, you're even worse, because you have appear to lack independent thought. At least Imran Khan can answer his critics. You have nothing to rebut with except rudeness. If you want to disagree that's fine, at least have the morals to be courteous about it.
Why don't you write in your opinions to the paper? Oh I'm sorry. You're not intelligent enough to write a coherent paragraph, let alone an entire article. I don't agree with half of the articles by this author. But you, not him, are exactly what is wrong with our society.
point…
am biggest supporter of PTI but if Hashmi realy said someting like that about HAfiz Saeed then he should be condemn …Tigot preacher like Hafiz Saeed did nothing but promoted chaos
My respect to your comment for being objective…
@moi: Have you gone through the term "Parhay Likhay Jahil". So somebody who is able to scribble an article becomes an intellectual whose opinion should be respected/mildly objected against. When I meet people like you, I somehow go back to the days of the British Raj and the Brown Baboons. Analysts and writers who are unable to decipher what Imran Khan stands for is leading to more disillusionment amongst the general public. It is the moral responsibility of any writer to provide/suggest alternate solutions because it is the basic premise of the entire exercise of conjuring a 500 word piece – the provide a solution to a problem in his own vague mind. So if the PTI is unable to defend its policies in the media, the party cannot be blamed for not having a policy at all. Instead, the writers are to be blamed for not researching enough to find out what their policy is. In fact, the trend of research in Pakistani journalism never took route and Mr. Mir is a continuation of that vicious "educated" media circus.
Only one point can be given some weightage among all the answers posted by PTI fans…that Rehnan Malik said the same…
Rest was mere hue and cry that they always make everytime they are asked to face the facts
@Kamran:
You said, "So if the PTI is unable to defend its policies in the media, the party cannot be blamed for not having a policy at all".
So basically, the PTI wants to be elected, yet they are unable to defend their policies? News Flash: The policies and actions of public officials are open to scrutiny. But you're right; we should definitely elect the PTI. They'll do anything they want, which of course they won't be able to defend, but who cares if they can't? At least they'll know the what and why of their executive & legislative actions. Why do we need to know? We're just sheep. We should quietly allow ourselves to be herded just like we always have. Why ask or hope for change?
The British Raj is over, friend. It happened, it ended. Time to make of this country what we will. Of course, if we can't have a civil discourse, nothing's really changed has it?
Its wonderful to see that the media is finally highlighting PTI's idiocies. Good work, and keep it up.
Viva la neo- fascists of PML( Imran Khan)- a sister concern of PML( Nawaz)
@Moi The perfect case of a convoluted argument. Creating your own assumptions and creating your own cause and effect relationships and blaming the PTI for that. What I meant was that PTI is unable to defend its point of view in the media because of various reasons; one being the increasing amount of paid anti-PTI arguments being presented and given more importance. Did the media cover the recently conducted seminars on good governance and curbing corruption? Did you or Mr. Mir attend them? The party does have the ability to defend itself where intellectual discourse and criticism is welcomed.
Your own lack of research is profound by the fact that you create your own assumptions: "They'll do anything they want, which of course they won't be able to defend, but who cares if they can't? At least they'll know the what and why of their executive & legislative actions. Why do we need to know? We're just sheep."
If Mr. Mir or yourself want to know more about the PTI, leave your comfortable lives and attend one of the seminars to find out more on what the party stands for. Second, if you still have an issue with what the party stands for, provide and alternative solutions. You should also google the word "Constructive Criticism" where you actually provide an alternative solution if you disagree with something AFTER doing your own research.
Well said! Very few people can actually criticise constructively, its not about being a PTI follower or not, its the inept ability to do so which comes through extensive research. I am positive that most non PTI followers do not research and their comments are just based on whatever the newspaper says. I am not a researcher or in journalism but i think in order to have opinions you must find a credible resource for the information. And that comes from attending the seminars and reading their portfolio on their site. Certainly many will disagree, but only then you can provide a recourse and present your opinions without an emotional dialect. PTI followers are usually blamed; yes, some can't argue because they do not possess the ability to debate, but that does not mean that every person in the world posesses this gift. Same goes for the so called intelects which sometimes present their ideas as the most naive ones i have ever read. Simple question to all, how should we deal with the 'war on terror'? ( directed towards the 'intellects') Imran Khans way or is their any other? Enlighten me.
umm.. you ever read? the solution, i think in this article, is not endorsing Hafiz Saeed and marginalizing his discourse and eventually rendering it ineffective. you expect column writers to critique and offer thesis like solutions in 800 words? i think you should stress the word solution when you are willing to listen to one or, as blasphemous as it might sound to your brain, being willing to look at the obvious.
I certainly did not say that the writers have to give a 'thesis' for a simple question asked. And you still have not answered in the way many would prefer. "its not doing this, its not doing that", what is it that the article is directing towards? Can it be more precise and clear? Now i am sure you will rant about CLEAR it is for every intellect right? Well i am an idiot, i need to know what the actual 'recourse' is suggested other than the current stance to IK. I am open to all solutions my brother, give me one! What is the obvious? Keep doing what the army is doing? Spit it out!
Everyone asks IK's policies and well we all know by now what he stands for, some agree and some don't. But those who disagree, can they tell me what other parties stand for in this case? I actually dont know, so if someone could just tell me, i'd really appreciate that. May be they have a better policy! 🙂
instead of giving personal remarks to the writer of this article – readers should be giving reasons why they think he is wrong, correct the writer if you have any argument on the points he has raised as far as the PTI statement on H.Sheikh.
@Kamran:
I don't know man. To me YOU seem like the idiot. You have nothing but assumptions yourself. You don't know where the author is coming from, where Moi is coming from and you're making personal attacks and being insulting. What matters is they're thinking and raising questions. You're just attacking others left right & center because people don't agree with you. The others aren't insulting you personally, even though you seem like a total jackass. Kudos to them.
@ Kool Aid:
When you know you're wrong, you could only resort to calling me an idiot and jackass rather than explaining why the writer was unable to attend the conferences conducted by PTI. I won't come down to your level and abuse you. You're not worth it.
The comments only show how Pakistan's society has degenerated over the last 2 decades. If an internationally acclaimed terror master like Hafiz Syed is their hero and people see a saviour in him it is very good signs for enemies of Pakistan and those who want to see another Afganistan in Pakistan, if it is already not on its way. Just because he runs charity outfits and beats his chest for injustice being done to Mulsims, doesn't mean he can not fill hatred in the minds of people against certain coountires or religion and keep state at logger heads with other countries. I have heard his fiery speeches which first fill the listeners with anger and than with frustration and hopelessness. Than comes what you can do for "qaum" and he will tell you wat to do and how !!!! it is simple. I have pity for his supporters, some call him hero because they are disenchanted with political class and some because of his using religion….100% guaranteed destruction of Pakista… but before that lot of humiliation and embrassments..long live Hafiz Syed..LOL
None of those who criticize author has given any counter argument. Just plain rhetoric. LeT and JuD are both banned by UNSC.There are less than 1 dozen Pakistanis out of population of over 180 million who are accused of running terror enterprises. I wonder how bankrupt Pakistan has become as not being able to find a hero out of 180 millions. Writer is not crazy to write without proper homework.
PTI troll goes amock
The LeT is an illegitimate arm of the ISI. And JuD was formed only as a front end smiley face of LeT. Its true that they have done quite a lot for people during the earthquake and all that, but doesnt take away from the fact that JuD was created to cover the imposed LeT ban. And it is heartening to see that there are people in the country who think rationally. Good job by the analyst.
Mr. Hashmi's quote is purely his personal opinion and not party policy or statement. It is a democratic party and you will have varying opinions. Painting it as a PTI policy statement is a bit unfair. Having said that it was an irresponsible statement from Mr. Hashmi which he should be reprimanded for. I would also like to ask what the PPP and PML-N's stance on Hafiz Saeed is. We know the Punjab Govt. has been funding JUD but their actual stance is a bit of a mystery isnt it. Whereas PTI has a clear stance on the Taliban, the radical elements etc. which you may or may not agree with what I find strange is that all these analysts are not highlighting the fact that the other major players dont have any stated policy on these very critical issues.
Hafiz Saeed may have a shadowy history on various accounts but fortunately no Pakistani can be declared guilty or otherwise simply because the world is screaming themselves hoarse on him. As for hate speech and other circumstantial evidence is concerned, then I believe author himself is guilty of it when he advocated drone attacks in the past as a last resort which means acceptance of 'collateral' damage of innocent people. I do not see any difference between the author advocating mass merciless murder of innocent Pakistanis and Hafiz Saeed parroting death to Indians etc.
My only concern is that if literate people like you have also started supporting Mr. Saeed, then what can we expect from the illiterate Pakistanis.
This will only take Pakistan into dumps. Please think with logic. Everyone clearly knows what Hafiz Saeed and Jud is upto. Don’t just support them because you want to support PTI. You can support the policies which you agree with but don’t put a blond eye and start justifying which you know is not the case..
The comments above show how intolerant, naive, biased and narrow minded the average Pakistani is. This is one of the best pieces i’ve heard/read but because the author wrote the article for Pakistan Today he faces such criticism because unfortunately the magazine is just another stupid magazine edited by biased and stupid Pakistan Today staff members. Regarding the article no logical person would ever support JUD except for the 36 ***** that took out their precious time to type bullshit here.
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